- ABS Brakes! Would you believe my 2008 Impala does not have ABS? Ugh!
- As many top tether spots as possible, more for the options this opens up. I have no desire to have up to 6 kids, but I could become the designated soccer mom :)
- As many lower anchors (LATCH) as possible, though this isn't as necessary since I love the seatbelt install on DS's NextFit car seat. I have a hunch I'll be using the lower anchors for the Graco bucket when we finally have kid number 2, though, so it's still important.
- It would be lovely to fit 2 kids in car seats and 6 adults in the van. I can see this happening at least 2-4 times a year, if not more.
- Comfortable seats, all the way around. Refer to previous post about 6 adults.
- A tailgate that lifts high enough so that hubby isn't clonked in the noggin whenever he walks back there.
- Back-up camera.
- As many controls on the steering wheel as I can get away with.
- Probably every safety feature required by the Car Seat Lady that hasn't already been discussed.
I know, that's a lot of stuff to wish for, but I think I can actually get all this in the Honda Odyssey.
When shopping for cars in general, it's important to know what your priority is. For me, that's child safety. We have one kiddo (henceforth called DS for Dear Son), 18 months old, and his safety is, to me, more important than just about anything else. This means the vehicle needs to be child restraint friendly. (Note: I'll be using "child restraint" instead of "car seat" so that when I'm talking about the actual car seat there will be less confusion.) A wonderful article I found discusses this exact topic: Vehicle Shopping With Car Seat Goggles. As I also mentioned, more than 2 LATCH and Tether points are clearly a must. The Car Seat Lady put up excellent graphics depicting some of the newer minivans and SUVs and where they put their LATCH and Tethers. Come to think of it, now that I've perused her sight I need to read everything in her vehicles category. (Expect more comments from some of her articles to show up here in the future.)
So Why A Minivan?
Why not an SUV, or go hog-for-broke and get a real van? Well, a 12- or 15-seater van is just too big. Too big for my garage, too big for me to comfortably drive, just too big all the way around. Now, what about an SUV? You know, I seriously thought about an SUV, but either they are 5-passenger vehicles, in which case I might as well stick with my car, or the 7-8 passenger variety, which I have never liked any that I've seen of that model. In addition, an SUV is pretty high off the ground, a distinct disadvantage in my mind. It's purely a personal preference, but I'd rather the lower floor of the minivan to the high placement of the SUV.
Have you looked at...?
Dodge Grand Caravan/Chrysler Town & Country: Last year for vacation, my hubby and I rented a Dodge Grand Caravan (I think a 2012 or 2013). Our son, 6 months old at the time, had a wonderful fit in his Graco SnugRide 30, rear-facing, in the driver's side captain's chair. Hubby and I, however, were not enamored with the vehicle. I thoroughly enjoyed all the automatic buttons (open/close the side doors, open/close the hatch) but missed the remote starter from my Impala. I know, boo hoo. I can get over that. Hubby loved that the rear hatch lifted high enough for his 6-foot-plus-hat frame to walk under without having to duck. He didn't realize just how much he loved it until our most recent vacation (see next section). But...the seats were not very comfortable. I spent all of my time in the front passenger seat rubbing my leg where the seat crease dug in. And this was cloth seats! I can only imagine how harsh leather seats could be. It's a shame, really. My parents owned a Grand Caravan when I was a teenager, it was the vehicle I learned to drive. For nostalgia's sake, I would have loved to own a Grand Caravan. Until I did further research, and discovered some very disconcerting information when it comes to child restraints and that mother-lovin' (not) back row.
Why not the Grand Caravan/T&C: I honestly don't know if this vehicle comes in 8 passenger form (answer: oh, it does). It doesn't matter. I have read far too many comments from owners and mechanics that state the back row is basically unusable. The shoulder belts come down from the ceiling, and they are set so far forward that on the average adult they rest about 2" in front of the shoulder. Useless. Added to that debacle is the fact that there is generally only one tether in the back row. Added to the two captains chairs in the middle row means this minivan has a total capacity of 3 forward facing car seats. As far as LATCH spots go: the 3rd row LATCH is offset to take up the middle and half of the driver's side seat. Ick!
Toyota Sienna: Earlier this year, we rented a Toyota Sienna (2013) for vacation. This time, it was me, hubby, son (15 months old this time), and both of my parents. Now, let's address the tether situation: there may be four tethers. I have been told that there are two in the very back row, which may very well be true. I didn't know what I was looking for, so I can't confirm this. However...
The very back row only has one set of LATCH anchors. When we tried to put DS's Graco bucket seat back there with the LATCH, it took up the middle seat and half of the driver side seat. Now, this was an 8-passenger Sienna (by my special request). My plan had been to use all four captain's chairs for the adults, put DS in the middle row middle seat, and fold down the back row and use the cargo space for luggage. The thing is, have you seen that middle row middle seat? It's basically a flat board parallel to the floor, a flat board perpendicular to the floor, and a really good bolt to hold it tight with the driver's side captain's chair. And, it's about 3 inches shorter in depth that the captain's chairs. I took one look at it, and my first fear was that it was too narrow for the bucket seat. I did some asking on a Facebook group (big shout-out to Car Seats for the Littles!) and they said that if I could get an install in that seat, Toyota allowed it. So I gave it a shot. What do you know? I got the base installed, and the bucket seat clicked right in. Except... Graco allows a 20% overhang of the child restraint off the car seat. Thinking back on it (I don't think I have any pictures) I probably had closer to 30% overhang. Bummer. Also, I could never quite get the seatbelt as tight as I liked...every time I shifted the base, if I lifted up just a little the entire thing came out and I had to start over. Thank God we never got into a wreck!
But it's worse than that: check out this video about the Sienna and it's 2nd row captain's chairs:
Did you see that? How the seat folds into itself so that someone can climb into the back? Now imagine what would happen to a child restraint in that car seat! Worse, imagine what would happen to a CHILD in that child restraint? Now, granted, the Sienna manual clearly states DON'T DO THIS if there is a child restraint and/or passenger in the seat, but still. It's going to happen at least once to every owner. Even more fun, if you have a child restraint in that middle seat (as we did) and you use the long slide on the driver's side chair, you still end up crunching the child restraint.
- - - - - - - - - - -
Have you looked at...?
Dodge Grand Caravan/Chrysler Town & Country: Last year for vacation, my hubby and I rented a Dodge Grand Caravan (I think a 2012 or 2013). Our son, 6 months old at the time, had a wonderful fit in his Graco SnugRide 30, rear-facing, in the driver's side captain's chair. Hubby and I, however, were not enamored with the vehicle. I thoroughly enjoyed all the automatic buttons (open/close the side doors, open/close the hatch) but missed the remote starter from my Impala. I know, boo hoo. I can get over that. Hubby loved that the rear hatch lifted high enough for his 6-foot-plus-hat frame to walk under without having to duck. He didn't realize just how much he loved it until our most recent vacation (see next section). But...the seats were not very comfortable. I spent all of my time in the front passenger seat rubbing my leg where the seat crease dug in. And this was cloth seats! I can only imagine how harsh leather seats could be. It's a shame, really. My parents owned a Grand Caravan when I was a teenager, it was the vehicle I learned to drive. For nostalgia's sake, I would have loved to own a Grand Caravan. Until I did further research, and discovered some very disconcerting information when it comes to child restraints and that mother-lovin' (not) back row.
Why not the Grand Caravan/T&C: I honestly don't know if this vehicle comes in 8 passenger form (answer: oh, it does). It doesn't matter. I have read far too many comments from owners and mechanics that state the back row is basically unusable. The shoulder belts come down from the ceiling, and they are set so far forward that on the average adult they rest about 2" in front of the shoulder. Useless. Added to that debacle is the fact that there is generally only one tether in the back row. Added to the two captains chairs in the middle row means this minivan has a total capacity of 3 forward facing car seats. As far as LATCH spots go: the 3rd row LATCH is offset to take up the middle and half of the driver's side seat. Ick!
Toyota Sienna: Earlier this year, we rented a Toyota Sienna (2013) for vacation. This time, it was me, hubby, son (15 months old this time), and both of my parents. Now, let's address the tether situation: there may be four tethers. I have been told that there are two in the very back row, which may very well be true. I didn't know what I was looking for, so I can't confirm this. However...
The very back row only has one set of LATCH anchors. When we tried to put DS's Graco bucket seat back there with the LATCH, it took up the middle seat and half of the driver side seat. Now, this was an 8-passenger Sienna (by my special request). My plan had been to use all four captain's chairs for the adults, put DS in the middle row middle seat, and fold down the back row and use the cargo space for luggage. The thing is, have you seen that middle row middle seat? It's basically a flat board parallel to the floor, a flat board perpendicular to the floor, and a really good bolt to hold it tight with the driver's side captain's chair. And, it's about 3 inches shorter in depth that the captain's chairs. I took one look at it, and my first fear was that it was too narrow for the bucket seat. I did some asking on a Facebook group (big shout-out to Car Seats for the Littles!) and they said that if I could get an install in that seat, Toyota allowed it. So I gave it a shot. What do you know? I got the base installed, and the bucket seat clicked right in. Except... Graco allows a 20% overhang of the child restraint off the car seat. Thinking back on it (I don't think I have any pictures) I probably had closer to 30% overhang. Bummer. Also, I could never quite get the seatbelt as tight as I liked...every time I shifted the base, if I lifted up just a little the entire thing came out and I had to start over. Thank God we never got into a wreck!
But it's worse than that: check out this video about the Sienna and it's 2nd row captain's chairs:
Did you see that? How the seat folds into itself so that someone can climb into the back? Now imagine what would happen to a child restraint in that car seat! Worse, imagine what would happen to a CHILD in that child restraint? Now, granted, the Sienna manual clearly states DON'T DO THIS if there is a child restraint and/or passenger in the seat, but still. It's going to happen at least once to every owner. Even more fun, if you have a child restraint in that middle seat (as we did) and you use the long slide on the driver's side chair, you still end up crunching the child restraint.
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* This article will be a work in progress until I actually purchase my next vehicle. As such, new links and new videos may pop up randomly in a previously-completed paragraph. I will attempt to create a new blog post every time I make a significant update, highlighting what the update was. However, my goal is to have all of my car-shopping thoughts in one post, even if that means I'm updating it until Christmas.**
** Of course, since I've been working on writing this particular article for over a week now, I think I'll change my mind and attempt the usual blog strategy: one blog post to cover each major point, and a master blog post to share all relevant links. Ugh. Please bear with me: this blog-writing-thing is still new to me.
** Of course, since I've been working on writing this particular article for over a week now, I think I'll change my mind and attempt the usual blog strategy: one blog post to cover each major point, and a master blog post to share all relevant links. Ugh. Please bear with me: this blog-writing-thing is still new to me.
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